Daisy wanted to go out like this. They weren't going to get her back and if the tasers were ineffectual, all they could do was try and talk to her for as long as possible - until she decided to make that an impossibility.
This was suicide by cop and tragic for all involved.
You are correct, had the deputies left her there, she would have found another wat to kill herself and then they would have been painted as uncaring bigots, who abandon a person who called for help.
Hopefully these deputies are able to cope and understand they couldn't have done anything more.
If someone were looking for a critical incident video to show as a perfect example of how a situation like this should be handled, this is it. It's also a perfect example of how de-escalation is only one tool on your tool belt and that a subject can only be deescalated if they choose to be. This was a perfect example of officers using the correct tone of voice, talking conversationally, trying to deescalate the situation while still maintaining their Tactical advantage. When it became clear that the subject was not going to be de-escalated and she charged the officers, they did not run away, they did not back miles down the street while yelling for her to stop, they utilized Force as necessary to stop the threat.
This case emphasizes the fact that there is no such thing as tragedy-free policing. Many may think that there is a missing Sage gun or some other Tony Stark gizmo, this is policing at its most basic level - try to help as much as you can and try to harm as little as you can. They did their best and I hope that is affirmed to those officers.
They did what they could with what they had, but lets talk about what they didn’t have that could have helped. Departments around the country still mandate that their law enforcement officers carry taser, I refused to till I the department switched to a different model and I was forced to teach it. The X26 or X29 that they are using there in that video has such a low chance of it actually working that it’s basically worthless other than throwing it at someone. I was trained yearly in their use, even though I didn’t carry one, watching law enforcement get shot and they drop like a rag doll, lock up, scream, cuss, it looks impressive. Then we would get into the field and during a span of over a decade, seen the taser used probably 50 times at least, never seen it actually work like it did in training where the suspect is immobilized and not able to move for those 5 seconds and can be handcuffed during this time. As a Sgt, saw a few reports that stated it worked, but never witnessed it in person and had zero confidence in it. This is why I never carried one till our department switched from the X26 to the X2.
The X2 and I was asked to instruct it as I was the instructor for basically every other use of force option in the department other than taser. They sent me to the master class, we actually had an instructor in our department that was rated to teach this level so the class was in house. My skepticism obviously was observed by the instructor who let’s face it was a desk jockey in our department that worked in our corrections department. This instructor got his rocks off by shooting the trainees in his class and watching them suffer, saw it in prior classes he taught. Our department wasn’t mandatory in regards to being shot and still carry the taser and I had several injuries that I didn’t want to take a chance injuring again just to prove I could do it. The regular classes, it wasn’t really pushed hard, but this class, this guy was pushing hard to shoot us all, there were 6 of us in the class. We went through the classroom portion and I did like that this unit had two dart shots per use and that out of the 4 darts fired, you only needed to land 2 of the 4 to have the unit be effective. Needless to say, I still refused to be shot, the instructor calling me weak and that I could never testify in court about its use and what it felt like. I offered the instructor a trade, I would let him go first, he could shoot me and I would take his 5 second ride. After that, as I was a weaponless defense instructor and a impact instructor, he would have to take 5 seconds of me going all out on him using either one, his choice. He said that was crazy, you didn’t have to have it used against you like that in those situations to be able to testify in court about them. I advised him precisely, the reason that taser pushes the shot your officers BS is that its easy money on their part, departments have to buy extra cartridges to shoot each other as well as buying the cartridges they use in the field. It’s a business model, plain and simple to make money, not holding it against them, but not gonna willingly get shot with this and lock up for 5 seconds where I can’t relax things if I need to in order to keep them from tearing out. Had torn out my right peck, upper and lower, twice as well as rotator cuff right side, left knee ACL replacement, right wrist ligament repair, right thumb ligament repair, get the drift. Needless to say, I didn’t get shot and he didn’t get beat up.
Now as to what I am talking about, the X2 is so far and above a better model that the X26 or X29 that those two should be not carried anymore by anyone. That female, wearing a large coat, your shot is going to have to be perfect to have a small chance of that taser working, period. You get one chance, shot it, hope, didn’t work, ok, do you try and reload in the middle of that even if you have another taser on you. With the X2, fire the first darts, no reaction, immediately fire the next set, you need two of those four darts to hit and stick, doesn’t matter if it was the first pair or second. At this point, you will get the lock up you’re looking for that allows officers to move. In immediately and disarm and cuff her without incident hopefully. Unfortunately departments out there don’t know or don’t care about getting their officers the best equipment they can thats gonna give them the best chance to have it work.
De-escalation is a two way street, you can try till you’re blue in the face, but if the person you’re talking to isn’t interested, it isn’t gonna happen. When all this BS about de-escalation started, giving specific classes in it like law enforcement wasn’t already doing this at every call they go to prior to this training. The general public thinks its all about roll up, yell at them, shoot them, go have a donut. I was using this for 2 decades prior to the first “official training” on it. I had been teaching it in my weaponless defense classes for almost two decades prior and nothing in this “new” class was any different than what I had already been teaching them.
This situation was one thing, suicide by cop, that woman wanted to die that night, didn’t have the courage to do it herself and used those officers to do it for her. The new tactic that if an armed subject is inside a house and nobody else is in there, just drive away because nobody is in danger and the liability of entry is to great. This situation, the person is outside in a mall parking lot, a lot of people around for her to contact if they leave, that option isn’t there for them.
For those that have departments that make you still carry the X26 or X29, have a talk with them and try to switch to the X2, it will make a huge difference in the weapon system actually working when needed. I have been retired for a few years, I hear they now have a new taser system that shoots four cartridges instead of two. I have seen it and it’s frickin big, there is a point where size matters on what you can carry and not carry.
Daisy wanted to go out like this. They weren't going to get her back and if the tasers were ineffectual, all they could do was try and talk to her for as long as possible - until she decided to make that an impossibility.
This was suicide by cop and tragic for all involved.
You are correct, had the deputies left her there, she would have found another wat to kill herself and then they would have been painted as uncaring bigots, who abandon a person who called for help.
Hopefully these deputies are able to cope and understand they couldn't have done anything more.
If someone were looking for a critical incident video to show as a perfect example of how a situation like this should be handled, this is it. It's also a perfect example of how de-escalation is only one tool on your tool belt and that a subject can only be deescalated if they choose to be. This was a perfect example of officers using the correct tone of voice, talking conversationally, trying to deescalate the situation while still maintaining their Tactical advantage. When it became clear that the subject was not going to be de-escalated and she charged the officers, they did not run away, they did not back miles down the street while yelling for her to stop, they utilized Force as necessary to stop the threat.
Thank you for the comment. I agree with your comments.
CIT isn’t magic. And even trained cops with good intentions can’t save everyone
This case emphasizes the fact that there is no such thing as tragedy-free policing. Many may think that there is a missing Sage gun or some other Tony Stark gizmo, this is policing at its most basic level - try to help as much as you can and try to harm as little as you can. They did their best and I hope that is affirmed to those officers.
They did what they could with what they had, but lets talk about what they didn’t have that could have helped. Departments around the country still mandate that their law enforcement officers carry taser, I refused to till I the department switched to a different model and I was forced to teach it. The X26 or X29 that they are using there in that video has such a low chance of it actually working that it’s basically worthless other than throwing it at someone. I was trained yearly in their use, even though I didn’t carry one, watching law enforcement get shot and they drop like a rag doll, lock up, scream, cuss, it looks impressive. Then we would get into the field and during a span of over a decade, seen the taser used probably 50 times at least, never seen it actually work like it did in training where the suspect is immobilized and not able to move for those 5 seconds and can be handcuffed during this time. As a Sgt, saw a few reports that stated it worked, but never witnessed it in person and had zero confidence in it. This is why I never carried one till our department switched from the X26 to the X2.
The X2 and I was asked to instruct it as I was the instructor for basically every other use of force option in the department other than taser. They sent me to the master class, we actually had an instructor in our department that was rated to teach this level so the class was in house. My skepticism obviously was observed by the instructor who let’s face it was a desk jockey in our department that worked in our corrections department. This instructor got his rocks off by shooting the trainees in his class and watching them suffer, saw it in prior classes he taught. Our department wasn’t mandatory in regards to being shot and still carry the taser and I had several injuries that I didn’t want to take a chance injuring again just to prove I could do it. The regular classes, it wasn’t really pushed hard, but this class, this guy was pushing hard to shoot us all, there were 6 of us in the class. We went through the classroom portion and I did like that this unit had two dart shots per use and that out of the 4 darts fired, you only needed to land 2 of the 4 to have the unit be effective. Needless to say, I still refused to be shot, the instructor calling me weak and that I could never testify in court about its use and what it felt like. I offered the instructor a trade, I would let him go first, he could shoot me and I would take his 5 second ride. After that, as I was a weaponless defense instructor and a impact instructor, he would have to take 5 seconds of me going all out on him using either one, his choice. He said that was crazy, you didn’t have to have it used against you like that in those situations to be able to testify in court about them. I advised him precisely, the reason that taser pushes the shot your officers BS is that its easy money on their part, departments have to buy extra cartridges to shoot each other as well as buying the cartridges they use in the field. It’s a business model, plain and simple to make money, not holding it against them, but not gonna willingly get shot with this and lock up for 5 seconds where I can’t relax things if I need to in order to keep them from tearing out. Had torn out my right peck, upper and lower, twice as well as rotator cuff right side, left knee ACL replacement, right wrist ligament repair, right thumb ligament repair, get the drift. Needless to say, I didn’t get shot and he didn’t get beat up.
Now as to what I am talking about, the X2 is so far and above a better model that the X26 or X29 that those two should be not carried anymore by anyone. That female, wearing a large coat, your shot is going to have to be perfect to have a small chance of that taser working, period. You get one chance, shot it, hope, didn’t work, ok, do you try and reload in the middle of that even if you have another taser on you. With the X2, fire the first darts, no reaction, immediately fire the next set, you need two of those four darts to hit and stick, doesn’t matter if it was the first pair or second. At this point, you will get the lock up you’re looking for that allows officers to move. In immediately and disarm and cuff her without incident hopefully. Unfortunately departments out there don’t know or don’t care about getting their officers the best equipment they can thats gonna give them the best chance to have it work.
De-escalation is a two way street, you can try till you’re blue in the face, but if the person you’re talking to isn’t interested, it isn’t gonna happen. When all this BS about de-escalation started, giving specific classes in it like law enforcement wasn’t already doing this at every call they go to prior to this training. The general public thinks its all about roll up, yell at them, shoot them, go have a donut. I was using this for 2 decades prior to the first “official training” on it. I had been teaching it in my weaponless defense classes for almost two decades prior and nothing in this “new” class was any different than what I had already been teaching them.
This situation was one thing, suicide by cop, that woman wanted to die that night, didn’t have the courage to do it herself and used those officers to do it for her. The new tactic that if an armed subject is inside a house and nobody else is in there, just drive away because nobody is in danger and the liability of entry is to great. This situation, the person is outside in a mall parking lot, a lot of people around for her to contact if they leave, that option isn’t there for them.
For those that have departments that make you still carry the X26 or X29, have a talk with them and try to switch to the X2, it will make a huge difference in the weapon system actually working when needed. I have been retired for a few years, I hear they now have a new taser system that shoots four cartridges instead of two. I have seen it and it’s frickin big, there is a point where size matters on what you can carry and not carry.