This is a case where even the most aggressive anti-police activists would have a difficult time criticizing the decision that the officer made as he pulled the trigger and utilized deadly force.
Also, this is a case where (under the review of an objective lens) there was very simple path to avoid the use of deadly force.
The fault does not lie with the officer who utilized deadly force - but the other officer on scene who’s obvious missteps were a major contributing cause to an Officer-Involved-Shooting (OIS).
This incident occurred on Sept 28, 2023 in Morris, Illinois (which is a small town approximately an hour southwest of Chicago) and it involved a woman named Alivia Schwab (40).
Ms. Schwab had been suffering with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and had been living in a residential treatment facility. She had just been released from a mental health facility and was living in an apartment trying to get her life back together.
The Call
This incident began when Ms. Schwab’s mental health providers called 911 and reported that she had threatened to kill herself with a knife.
This prompted the operator to dispatch officers from the Morris, Illinois police department.
Arrival on Scene
Two officers with the Morris Police Department arrived on scene (Nick Pampinella and Casie Price).
The officers arrived, exited their cars, and started walking towards the apartment of Ms. Schwab.
As officers approached the apartment, Ms. Schwab emerged from her apartment and stood near the front door. At this point she was armed with a 9” knife in her left hand and had a cell phone in her right hand that was up to her ear.
Officer Pampinella stated to Officer Price "you go non-lethal”. Officer Price then looked at Officer Pampinella and acknowledged this plan/force array.
Commands
Ms. Schwab then (without saying a word) started to walk towards Officer Pampinella and he gave the following commands,
"Hi, miss. Miss, drop the knife, drop the knife." "Drop, stop coming towards me! Stop coming towards me!"
As the knife-wielding woman was bearing down on Officer Pampinella (who was quickly walking backwards) - Officer Price just stood there - off to the side - doing nothing. Officer Price’s hands were empty. She did not even have the Taser drawn.
An obviously frustrated Officer Pampinella then yelled, “Casie! Tase her!” (to Officer Price).
It was at that point that Officer Price snapped back to planet earth and started fumbling while trying to unholster and turn on the Taser - as well as trying to catch up to where Ms. Schwab was.
Officer Pampinella then yelled, “Stop” and “Stop! Or you are going to get shot!”.
OIS
Ms. Schwab then started to run towards officer Pampinella. She took approximately three to four “running strides” and got within 8-10 feet of Officer Pampinella.
It was at that point that he utilized deadly force and fired three rounds at Ms. Schwab. Ms. Schwab sustained fatal injuries.
(body cam)
Mental Health Response
There has been some criticism and question as to why police officers were dispatched to this call and not mental health professionals.
First, any issue, criticism, or problem that you have with who is dispatched to a call for service lies with the politicians who manage police departments - not the men and women who suit up and respond to the calls they are sent.
There are police departments that have “mobile crisis teams”. These teams are typically made up of an officer (who has CIT or ECIT training) and a mental health clinician. I am a fan of this model.
But. Even in agencies that have these “mobile crisis teams” - the mental health clinicians are not in play until the call is deemed “safe”. A situation where someone was still armed with a knife would always dictate that armed police officers respond first and then call the mental health professionals once the individual is in custody and the knife is secured.
Taser
I do not know where the breakdown occurred here, but the police managers in Morris better figure it out.
Officer Pampinella told Officer Price to go “non lethal”. If she did not know what to do - her partner gave her the answer. All she had to do was follow directions.
Once Officer Price made the decision to finally draw the Taser - she had difficulty unholstering the weapon and turning it on.
If she had this much trouble with basic manipulations - my guess - if she had deployed the Taser - it would have missed Ms. Schwab.
Justified
Ms. Schwab was advancing on Officer Pampinella (who was backing up) while armed with a 9” knife. If anything Officer Pampinella likely let her get too close before firing his weapon.
This is obviously an objectively reasonable and lawful use of deadly force.
The Grundy County District Attorney has also stated that the use of deadly force was within the law.
A plaintiff’s attorney (working behalf of the Schwab) family said that the officers were in no danger because the knife was “pointed downward in a nonthreatening manner”.
It is impossible for a 9” knife to be held in “non-threatening manner” when you are chasing someone with it.
This is an easy statement to make from the safety of a law office. Only those that hold the dishonest privilege of viewing everything through 20/20 hindsight make such idiotic comments.
Final Thoughts
Think about this.
There was a point in this incident where Ms. Schwab was advancing on Officer Pampinella with a 9 inch knife. And Officer Price stood back, watched, and allowed this to happen without drawing her Taser or firearm.
This is unacceptable.
I agree with " vast majority of your comments regarding this case, however I have said it before and I will say it again, a taser is not the appropriate weapon to use when you are faced with a non-compliant, active and aggressive suspect who is armed with a deadly weapon. It's just not. If the suspect had simply stood in her doorway, if she had stopped at any time, if the knife had been held down by her side and she wasn't acting aggressive towards the officer, and if the officer with the less lethal, not "non-lethal" , could get into a position on the suspects blind side I might say sure, go ahead and try the taser. But that wasn't anywhere even close to this particular scenario.
Let me be clear here, I'm not saying that less lethal should not have been considered particularly since all they had was information that she was threatening suicide with a knife and they didn't yet see her or know any particulars. It's always a good idea to have that in the back of your mind but only if the situation presents itself and definitely not against an actively aggressive and armed suspect. As you noted, the officer waited far too long to fire his gun because he was expecting his partner to do as they had agreed to earlier.
However, the minute they saw her walk out from the door and start walking towards the primary officer the taser should have been completely forgotten and deadly force should have been their only option.
This woman obviously intended to commit suicide and when her counselor called the police, she saw an easy way out that didn't take the nerve of doing it herself.
I'll also add that the suspect in this case appeared to be wearing some type of baggy clothing and most of us are aware that the taser darts have been reconfigured and are much shorter and the barbs are much smaller today and that the chance of them penetrating her body in the appropriate spread through heavy clothing particularly when she's on the move was slim to none imo.
It is incidents like this that cause the public to think that the taser is the appropriate weapon in a situation like this.
As to your comments regarding the female officer and her taser capabilities, I don't know anything about her, her time on the job Etc but she couldn't even turn the taser on it appeared and at one point she appeared to actually try and rack the slide on the taser as if it were her handgun. She was completely unprepared mentally to handle the stresses of a situation that officers respond to every single day. Even if she had been able to fire the taser and if it had been ineffective, no one could blame her for not at least doing that, but she did nothing. She gave two almost quiet commands to the suspect to stop and then never said another word. She never announced the taser, she never gave any other commands and then she fumbled with the taser to the point where the suspect was within 8 to 10 ft of her partner and he had to end the situation by himself.
As for the knife, I would love to meet this attorney in a parking lot, while I hold a knife with a 7, 8 or 9-in blade in my hand, ice pick style with my hand raised up to my shoulder and start running towards him and see if he thinks that I couldn't do him any harm. He's a f****** idiot! But he's just looking for his 33 and a third and hopefully the agency will pay him absolutely nothing because that's what he deserves.
I feel bad for the male cop that did everything right.